Baha'i Rants - Latest Comments in Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Phil Ramsey — Sat, 14 Sep 2013 18:26:52 -0000

A fewness of words and an abundance of deeds would bring more hearts to Baha'ullah, then all the words on a piece of paper and some booklets

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Baquia — Sat, 10 Aug 2013 22:18:14 -0000

Ruhi is a mish-mash of authoritative texts and non-authoritative texts as well as a liberal helping of personal opinion and interpretation from the anonymous authors of the Ruhi textbooks.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

DNA — Fri, 09 Aug 2013 09:27:52 -0000

Why isn't this topic called 'Time for Baha'u'llah to show us the Money' because it is not a very well disguised attack on the Blessed Beauty and His Writings? People attacking Ruhi are attacking Baha'u'llah period! What kind of Baha'i attacks the Writings of the Blessed Perfection publicly, demeans their value and undermines their exalted power? A covenant breaker!

Ruhi if you care to flip open a page or two is REPLETE with the Words of Baha'u'llah, Abdul-Baha and some of the Guardians letters.

An attack on Ruhi is an attack on THEM. So you're saying the Writings lack the effectiveness to enlist mankind!! Unless of course they are in a format approved by covenant breakers.

I know Baha'is who have read the Writings for 40 years literally but aren't really Baha'is and there was no Ruhi then so who's fault is that? Didn't the Master say that a man may call himself a Baha'i for 40 or 50 years yet if his actions do not reflect the teachings then he is not a Baha'i while a man who has never heard of Baha'u'llah may be a Baha'i by his actions? Doesn't that, if you accept the Master that is, mean that progress of the Faith depends on our OWN EFFORTS? Ruhi is only a catalyst. If people don't PRACTICE it of course its not going to succeed. But to blame Ruhi itself and the beloved House of Justice is an outright lie. The success or failure of any Baha'i enterprise depends upon our efforts we make. If we do not take the pearls from God's Ocean is it God's fault? The Most Holy Book has also been released for over 20 years is that a failure too because the numbers if Baha'is remain stagnant? Couldn't it be that people don't see anything wonderful or glorious about us so they simply ignore us? It's always God's fault or the Universal House of Justice but never our fault is it? What about that Tablet where Baha'u'llah Wrote that had the believers heeded His Call the world would have been transformed in HIS OWN LIFETIME?? So no world wars, no massacre of Jews etc etc. He squarely laid the blame rightfully on US so we should be looking at how we can correct this and not go around blaming the House of Justice for our failure to fulfil our duties to mankind.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

PeterT — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 22:39:35 -0000

Sounds like a lot of misinformation, opinion based purely on personal experience (which truth be told is how most people formulate their ideas/beliefs about the world) and misunderstanding.

I agree that the Writings should have as little personal opinion as possible, because we are trying to establish what is true, not what we think is true. Also many quotes were taken out of context to paint a certain picture that is inaccurate.

"It is natural that a verse from the Writings should bring to mind myriads of noble and beautiful ideas. To share these ideas with the friends on appropriate occasions conduces to joy and happiness. But care must be taken so that this practice does not become an exercise in the expression of ego and an insistence of the sovereignty of personal opinion."
This comes before the quote mentioned in other's posts.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

PeterT — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 22:27:03 -0000

From the sounds of it, you needed to walk away. And its good for everyone that you did if it's inciting you to violence. But then... why are you here talking about it? Maybe move on?...

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

PeterT — Wed, 17 Jul 2013 22:22:08 -0000

the "fill in the blank exercise" simply repeats quotations from the Writings for the purpose of memorization and to focus the attention on the quote itself. The exercise has nothing to do with interpretation.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Baquia — Sat, 23 Apr 2011 00:06:07 -0000

Zureick, Iran, like Columbia has high PDI and UAI and low IDV on the Hofstede cultural dimensions which is the framework mentioned.

Perhaps you missed the first sentences and ignored the advice included therein:

"This is the second installment asking why the Baha’i Ruhi courses should “show us the money”. If you missed the first part, then click on the previous link to go back and read it. You can skip it but doing so would be like walking into an LSA meeting; it’ll only leave you confused and unsatisfied."

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Zureick1 — Fri, 22 Apr 2011 23:53:27 -0000

The culture of Iran is remarkably similar to the culture of Columbia? That's where I stopped reading. I'm sure there is some aspect of those cultures you think is similar but, good God, really? That has to be one of the grossest over-generalizations I have have ever heard.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Baquia — Thu, 08 Apr 2010 00:06:08 -0000

Thanks Sonja - interesting blog.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

sonjavank — Tue, 06 Apr 2010 06:40:13 -0000

Here's a recent blog written by "Liberal Bahai" on the topic of Ruhi, he writes...
"Ruhi is good for rote learning and memorization. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing.... The problem with Ruhi is that a lot of people take it too seriously and view it like it is some kind of talisman or spell book that if memorized, will open the doors to endless understanding. Some communites and Bahais try to use Ruhi like an all-purpose magic formula, and that’s what causes all of the bitterness and problems. There is nothing wrong with rote learning and memorization, so long as there are other avenues of expression within a community. There has to be intellectual freedom, the right to question, ponder and acquire individual interpretations to what one has memorized or learned. This is part of the process of internalizing a concept. Memorization alone will not do that. It will just allow a person to parrot what they have heard or read...."

http://liberalbahai.wordpre...

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Baquia — Mon, 05 Apr 2010 22:21:35 -0000

According to this recent article, the Baha'i community of Colombia is 32,000 strong. If we estimate the population to appx. 46 million (last census was in 2008 showing 44.5 million) then this is about 0.07% of the population.

So there is one small evidence of the efficacy - or rather, lack thereof - of Ruhi.

Thanks to Sen for finding the article and sharing it on Talisman!

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

rhapsodist — Sat, 27 Mar 2010 21:10:48 -0000

There is a big misconception that "mass conversions" and "entry by troops" are the same thing.

When the teachings of Baha'u'llah result in the nurturing of the spirits of the community, this improves life. This is Ruhi.

I've seen in my own community in New Jersey, as well as in the neighboring New York City community, in the last two years, the positive affects of Ruhi bringing people together. Some people become lovers of Baha'u'llah, some people don't. But in general, the teachings of Baha'u'llah do touch people and help improve their spiritual lives. And this is the goal.

The Faith is about unification. It's about love. It's not about conversion.

O SON OF MAN!
Thou dost wish for gold and I desire thy freedom from it. Thou thinkest thyself rich in its possession, and I recognize thy wealth in thy sanctity therefrom. By My life! This is My knowledge, and that is thy fancy; how can My way accord with thine?

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

winterbv — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 08:52:17 -0000

When do we start handing out those drugs (and what are those drugs so we can start the movement now)? Is Walmart selling those implants? It seems like the best idea I've heard in years.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

farhan — Sat, 30 May 2009 22:38:08 -0000

Amado wrote: you can’t teach what you know – only what you are

Yes Amado, I agree with you; I have seen everything you describe and even worse. These are mistakes from people who would have been completely inactive without the institute. We sometimes have fun laughing at postings with examples mistakes students and even teachers make in their school work; this doesn't mean we have to close down schools, but proves how badly we need them.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Amado — Sat, 30 May 2009 21:44:57 -0000

This wondering whether Ruhi works here in South American cultures is an important question – let’s see if I can give a useful answer.
I kind of like the Ruhi materials – but I have seen them used in ways that I don’t like.
I remember the air of arcane arrogance with which my Bahá’í brothers and sisters would refer to “the Institute process”at first when they didn’t have a clear idea what was going on, either, but really wanted the rest of us to think that they did.
I remember the young lady who came to tell us just how we had to do our junior-youth groups, because that was the way to do JY groups – who was appalled when we tried to explain to her that our situation was different than the one she was describing, and thanks for the advice, but we can’t do it that way...
I remember myself – as a “good Bahá’í”, trying to work for unity, feeling very troubled when my friend told me that (in an Asian, mostly Muslim country) they had to “adapt” the Ruhi materials.
And I have seen the tutors, “trained” to ensure quality and consistency, stubbornly insist that the answer is this and not that.

But I also remember when our friends in Colombia began developing these materials, starting with some little booklets with suggestions on doing children’s classes, with coloring, singing, playing (non-competitive) games – nice! And I have therefore seen this as a stage in evolution, and not something we are stuck with.
Partly so people will not have the typical first reaction (these materials are offensively simplistic, pointless, with no relation to practical life) I have always started out by saying, “We have a religion without a clergy, and are still trying to figure out how to do that. We have tried different kinds of ‘deepening’, different study guides and children’s class materials, courses and so on. This is one of the most recent tries at finding a way to run a religion in which each of us is responsible for knowing what to do!”
Then we emphasize that Book 1 starts with a three-step process: the too-simple parroting of the quote, the not-so-easy giving of examples of what that means – and the pretty-hard design of ways to put that idea into practice in our own lives. So, we proceed much as in "values clarification" (most of our study-circle members are not Bahá'ís) emphasizing that we all believe pretty much the same things, and the world will be better when we find more ways to put what-we-all-believe into practice!
Every time we find a question that might have different answers, we work hard to elicit diversity in the answers, and get people explaining why it might be this or it might be that – rather than saying “just put X” as if filling in the spaces in a book would change the world…

And the results seem reasonably satisfying: everyone in the circle gives some thought to “spiritual things”, about 10-15% become Bahá’ís and most of them continue meeting to study. There is a Local Spiritual Assembly here for the first time. People make comments indicating that their quality of life has improved. For example, a wife says her husband is nicer to her and their marriage is working better now, attributing it to the study circle even though there is so little about family relations in the whole series (so far, anyway). A daughter says she is getting along better with her family (again, totally tangential to the subjects studied, but she says it is a result!).
I remember in the early 70s when Dr. Muhajir wanted us to form “cells” like the Communists in order to study together. Maybe this would have worked better if there had been a workbook series, committees to track stepwise progress, and other backstopping / accountability structures and mechanisms. Perhaps the whole world would be using the workbook series developed in some other country if it had been supported / pushed this way!

No worse than the “read some books” system, which kept most of us ignorant and a lot of people leaving the Faith without ever finding out much about it. So many countries got up to about 10 thousand declared Bahá’ís and then stagnated there, with hundreds of “paper Assemblies” elected by one vote dictated at Ridván to a traveling teacher but never to meet or act again - till next Ridván's "election".
Of course the idea that anything but the Ruhi Institute Process is wrong, a waste of time, an obstacle to progress, is abhorrent. But we can’t discard a pretty good system just because there are some squares involved!
There is a saying in “the ed. biz” that you can’t teach what you know – only what you are. Another example from Colombia: the Tutorial Learning System (SAT), created by much the same bunch of Bahá’ís and committed, creative friends of Bahá’ís. The whole idea was to create livelihoods for peasants, giving them the ability to create their own modus vivendi, rather than being squeezed into exploitation as cheap labor. We have met dozens of people who have come out of this process in Colombia, and they all just wish someone would give them a job…
Similarly, until we learn not to be bossy, dogmatic lovers of adulation and easy answers, some of the drawbacks we see in the "Institute Process" are actually just the fruits of who we are starting out as.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Grover — Mon, 25 May 2009 03:19:20 -0000

Well, it was either a big catastrophe was going to happen or the most great peace by 2000 or around then. The UHJ still trots out the world is in travail from time to time, but really if you compare now to the 1940s when world war 2 was happening, everything is looking pretty peachy (apart from a few terrorists and economic troubles keeping things interesting, and of course, if you happen to be living in Iraq, Somalia or Afghanistan, Africa, or wherever America has been meddling). I might be quite naive because I'm living in a nice peaceful western country, but in relativistic terms it seems humanity is pretty close to a general sort of peace. Did this happen naturally or is it the "Spirit of the Age" aka Baha'u'llah's revelation?

The roll out for Ruhi is only ever for trying to obtain mass conversions, to try and achieve entry by troops which the UHJ has been promising was just on the horizon since it first started.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

farhan — Sun, 24 May 2009 02:53:24 -0000

ummyasmin wrote: ... distracting the masses from noticing the Lesser Peace didn't happen

ummyasmin, we _are_ in the Lesser Peace; as its name indicates, it is a minor achievement _between_ the world's nations and a failure in internal peace, as compared to what the world could have accomplished had the world's rulers responded to Baha'u'llah's appeal 140 years back.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

ummyasmin — Sat, 23 May 2009 22:39:09 -0000

I think the intense rollout of Ruhi around the world, and the obsession with take-up statistics was a way of distracting the masses from noticing the Lesser Peace didn't happen. Mind you, I don't think that was necessarily a *conscious* decision, but there had to be something to get the masses involved and doing, given that come 2000 (or 2001) the nations of the world were still busily killing each other and making war on each other.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

farhan — Fri, 08 May 2009 16:04:09 -0000

Eric wrote: In fact, I'd put you in charge of revising the Ruhi books.

Eric, the books don't need revising; they are mere instruments providing a framework for canalizing a study session. No two study circles are the same, depending on the participants and the experience of tutors. As we repeat the circles and mature in experience, we see the practical results and our understanding of the institute process increases, and this understanding is outlined in the abundant messages of the UHJ on the subject, which few participants have had the time to thoroughly study

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Eric Hadley-Ives — Fri, 08 May 2009 10:52:43 -0000

Farhan,

I think you have expressed a noble ideal, and I hope Baha'i communities are moving toward it. I wish you were writing the official letters that tell Ruhi Tutors what it's all about. In fact, I'd put you in charge of revising the Ruhi books.

I'm referring to this passage:
"The purpose of the acts of service is to foster a new culture where people become “the lump” with which their neighbourhood can be “leavened”, PROMOTING a way of life, a culture of service, and not an expansion through competition with other religions or as a political enterprise. These acts of service are open to all, whether Baha’is or not"

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

fubar — Sat, 02 May 2009 15:33:56 -0000

Farhan, as usual, you are wrong. details drive larger, high-level change, which only later recognises and "institutionalizes" (enacts) a new paradigm. your top-down bahai-speak is contary to evolution, which is bottom-up, and arises from details.

progresive revelation is a very bad model for spiritual evolution, and is just one example of bad bahai metaphysics, and why bahai is a religion stuck in an old set of inflexible ideas and paradigms that have become "regressive".

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

fubar — Sat, 02 May 2009 15:27:46 -0000

That would be a good question for the people within bahai administration that "investigate" critics, nonconformists and dissidents, and drive such people out of the religion through thought policing and imposition of conformity.

Please let everyone know when you get an answer.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Wolfgang — Fri, 01 May 2009 16:20:46 -0000

No problem. I've noticed a fair amount of negativitiy in reply to your posts, but I've found them to be insightful and well reasoned. I figure it never hurts to have a word of encouragement every now and then.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Craig Parke — Fri, 01 May 2009 03:02:19 -0000

Farhan,

Let me explain it a little clearer. The Ruhi material is an extremely poor expression of the Baha'i Teachings. It is NOT based upon the actual Baha'i Writings AT ALL but upon the personal opinions ( or as you say "Guru opinions") of the very tiny clique of self styled "educators" within the AO that wrote it. There are factual errors it. Some of it is based upon Pilgrim's Notes. Whoever approved of this material apparently has never read the Baha'i Writings or studied them at any length. If that was the UHJ or the ITC or the Counselors then that will certainly reflect on them in world history. The material is utter crap and a total disgrace. The second thing wrong is that the "fill in the blanks" method of "teaching" (Tm) is rote learning that leads to no understanding whatsoever. There can be no deeper understanding because any deep discussion of anything at all is absolutely forbidden in the fundamentalist Orwellian Telescreen teaching of the hapless material. The people who have top down devised and implemented this abomination worldwide - far from helping the Baha'i Faith - have utterly destroyed it. History will be the witness. These people are utter dunces and they will wait tables in hell along with their families forever. They are truly the "last clergy of mankind" and they will take the Divine Judgment upon their hapless and inept souls in the new World Age. All bets are now off. Mark my words. They have taken the Baha'i Faith to utter ruin.

Re: Time for Ruhi to Show Us the Money: Part II

Craig Parke — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 21:59:16 -0000

It appears that the UHJ really IS infallible in that apparently God's Plan is to completely destroy the Baha'i Faith everywhere on Earth and they are carrying it out brilliantly with great and tremendous skill. They are the genius Keystone Cops of World Religions now. It actually is rather artistic. They are really, really good at this. It is truly majestic in scope.

One cannot say that the concept in itself of the top down Comintern Faith is original (the Communists in various attempts did invent more effective forms for actually killing people) but the AO has certainly added some new twists. But Mao did have his little red books first but I don't think they had endlessly repeating Study Circles to go with them over and over? Does anyone know?

I have also been informed by a scholar that the Persian word for "infallible" does not imply success of any kind in an "infallible decision".

Infallible is a psychological construct of Shia Islam. It is a kind of Pee Wee Herman concept of total adolescent Pyrrhic victory. It does not imply being successful in any decision in any Western way of thinking. You are still naked and destitute. Your religion goes completely bankrupt and all it's property is taken over by the State of Israel as people flee it in droves hounded by the thought police. But it is still "infallible" in it's ruin. To me the concept seems useless then. What is the point then? Infallibility does not ever imply any kind of success in any way. It is just a kind of beauty pageant sash in the depth psychology of Shia Islam over the long centuries.

But I will fully acknowledge that so far the UHJ actually does seem to be breaking the mold in their infallibility to actually match up with success. They are successfully batting 1000 in the total destruction of the Faith on Earth. I do give them credit on that. It really is breathtaking.

Except for a few momentary years in the 1960's and 1970's in many places in the world, you have an astonishing record of continuous uninterrupted failure and shooting themselves in the foot with near mathematical precision. It is really an amazingly consistent record of mind bending dysfunctional thinking.

So far they realy have been infallible in the execution of God or God(ess)'s apparent Divine Plan.

I think the true Divine Plan in this new World Age is the final disgrace of all the blood thirsty Abrahamic religions and all the hapless dysfunctional mindsets of the people's and ancient cultures of the Middle East who have fought over "religion" for millenniums. The Baha'i Faith was a great idea. That is why I joined it and served it for almost 40 years. The world does indeed need a Universal spiritual path with the great danger of the invention of nuclear weapons. This was certainly one of my main motivations. But the Faith was executed so incredibly poorly and so haplessly because of lifetime incumbency in the electoral process, the solution is going to come from some other source. It will not be the Baha'i Faith "organization" in any meaningful way. But the free and open wide ranging ideas of the World Age will indeed flower and go on to other peoples and other movements. I have great hope in the power of the Internet and the technology of mass planetary intimate communication. But the Baha'is will never be players in any of it now. Communism failed and the Baha'i Faith as a system of spiritual communism will fail for the same reasons. No innovation and free thought is permitted in the new top down concrete codified ideology. It is now all going to fail miserably and the Faith face financial ruin in the stresses of these times. Too much time has been lost to ever recover now. The Ruhification of the Faith will be completely and utterly fatal.